After a long break
#11
Omfg I was replying to you and I hit back button and now it's all gone and now I'm FDIUSdsGFHTDSFgfdHSAGHJHKJLSDAHJSKasa ANYWAYS TIME TO EXPLAIN AGAIN FCK ME

(10-20-2015, 09:20 AM)Person Wrote: In that case how does Levia manage to get in top ranking for dragon hall?

Dragon Hall is mostly bossing, not mobbing.
And I did say Levia > Everyone else in general ranking

(10-20-2015, 09:20 AM)Person Wrote: Also why is J's mobbing better than Yuri's?

Yuri really only has one skill for mobbing, and it has high cooldown. Usually, it's not a problem at all, UNLESS it gets cancelled or you accidentally cut it off early. J is superior to Yuri because almost every single one of his skills has use in mobbing + it won't matter if one of his skills get cancelled because he can just use another skill with similar function.

Ocher Catch can move foe from one place to another.
Omega-3 gradually pulls into center of the skill.
FM1 first strike gathers.
Jade pulls foes from one place to another.
Calcium and Magnesium are both pushes.
Chiropractic can move sevral foes from one place to another extremely quickly and easily.
Vitamin Combinations pushes all foes to the end of the hitbox.
FM3 is a Tornado that carries all foes from one spot to another.

(10-20-2015, 09:20 AM)Person Wrote: and why is Seha not included with shockwave & boner blade & flame pulverization???
Don't forget PBS, that skill is godly.
But the reason I don't include Seha is because Seha/Seulbi/Levia have more or less same mobbing prowess.

All three of them have the same exact problem: They can't gather an entire map as quickly as J/Yuri/Tein/Nata.
So they have to slowly kill each section of the map one by one.

Seha has Flame Pulverization and Shockwave to gather mob, but though the range is great, the massive issue is that you need to be in the center of all those mobs to properly gather them all. Meaning, if you want to properly follow it up with PBS or >>ZZ, you need to Emergency Escape back, which is a waste of time. Flame Pulverization and Shockwave also have extremely long cooldowns, and you need to hold Flame Pulverization for pulling effect (which is a stationary gathering method).

Seulbi has Gravity Field, Black Hole, and FM2 for mobbing. FM2 can nearly kill an entire room, which is extremely useful for killing time.
Gravity Field helps slowly push all the foes together + get some AI awareness. But Gravity Field range is inferior + knocks down foes. This isn't a problem in terms of damage now, but knocking down a foe means they need time to get up, meaning their AI won't follow you if you run too far ahead. Black Hole is great, with a large suction range. But unlike Levia's Dimensional Singularity, you can't hold it to change location, and the cooldown is BS long. So if you make a mistake, ggwp. Also, Black Hole is stationary, meaning you have to slowly kill each section, one by one. (That, or slowly push, then gather all)

I originally thought Levia was amazing at mobbing, until Senne told me Dimensional Singularity doesn't suck in foes on the Z-plane (well more accurately, the range on the Z plane is bad), which is extremely important. So basically, Levia's mobbing relies entirely on walking around with Swarm and hoping the Monster AI doesn't fk up. Which requires a fair bit of luck because naddicgames AI is just...euck
Yes, you can use Fang Dive with Dimensional Singularity to make up for the lack of Z-plane suction, but remember that Dimensional Singularity is STATIONARY. Meaning it does not get rid of the issue that Levia has to slowly kill each section of the map one by one. And unlike Seulbi, Levia does not have a skill that nukes the entire map. The advantage that Levia has over Seulbi would be that Dimensional Singularity's cooldown is extremely low compared to Black Hole. Also Walpurgis is more or less just a gigantic Dimensional Singularity that does way more damage, Serpent Swam is just a line attack. (Yuri has about 4 non-FM line attacks if you want to compare...)

They aren't bad. They just pale in comparison. I mean, I fking love playing Levia.

(10-20-2015, 09:20 AM)Person Wrote: and that him and Nata are way better than Levia in mobbing, why don't they get a better timing in dragon hall? to my knowledge clearing mobs plays a BIG role in your timing, especially if you are going to get 9minute runs.

Then why does the best J get 13~15+min runs while Levia & Seha (yuri & seulbi obvsly, can add some natas & teins) get less timing/better ranking?
(10-20-2015, 09:20 AM)Person Wrote: As far as i know, Dragon hall is all about camping mob spawn AND nuking bosses, Using your tier ranking, J is better than Seha & Tein & Seulbi on both mobing AND bossing, yet that one dungeon ranking says the complete opposite [making him the worst character there]

Bossing still plays a much more massive role, stats play a massive role in ranking, and J and Nata are uncommonly mained, ergo lower stats. (which is ironic because I'm talking to a Nata/J main)

By the way, you should remember that YOU YOURSELF proved how important True Damage/Defense Penetration is in Dragon Hall.
Who has the highest penetration rates? Levia and Seha.

...J only has one skill with included penetration.

For Seulbi, most people main Seulbi, so most resources go into Seulbi, ergo higher stat. Also don't forget Seulbi gets a Penetration buff when using Master Railgun, plus a magic defense debuff from deduction bit release.
Edit: I just found out Black Hole also reduces Defense
For Tein...I only saw like one Tein.

(10-20-2015, 09:20 AM)Person Wrote: I wouldn't accept things such as "no J in the server is geared" as explanation, remember the 70k DPS one lol..

Stats matter but if you suck at the game nothing can help you. And don't forget you're using Dragon Hall as an example, which requires penetration-based build or a character with a lot of penetration already (which J does not have).
Also not everyone does Dragon Hall, and there's a good chance other players just have considerably better stats or strategy.

(10-20-2015, 09:20 AM)Person Wrote: J is better on bossing than Yuri (or tied with her, golden time again +85% critical damage yo)

...I...can't tell if you're trying to tell me J sucks or J is good.
Though I say Yuri is better because her character bonus gives +% of Critical Damage AND Attack. Not to mention she loses absolutely nothing from going hybrid build, unlike J. And if you don't use hybrid build for J, you lose out on some DPS.

Though to be honest, they're probably tied, now that you bring the +85% into consideration.

Edit: I will admit that I should've stated my general ranking is based on normal dungeon gameplay in areas like Plane Gate (excluding special dungeon), not high-defense areas like Dragon Hall


anyways this post is too long for me to check mistakes
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#12
(10-20-2015, 11:11 AM)Khleys Wrote: Omfg I was replying to you and I hit back button and now it's all gone and now I'm FDIUSdsGFHTDSFgfdHSAGHJHKJLSDAHJSKasa ANYWAYS TIME TO EXPLAIN AGAIN FCK ME
RIP, FeelsBadMan
(10-20-2015, 11:11 AM)Khleys Wrote: Yuri really only has one skill for mobbing, and it has high cooldown.
Pretty sure J's mobing is nowhere as being the best in the game, the only good thing is Chiropractic and it has high cooldown as well (even with 40% CDr build) yes, i capped a J for airport :c[/quote]
(10-20-2015, 11:11 AM)Khleys Wrote: Ocher Catch can move foe from one place to another.The hitbox is kinda small, and the best way to use it withotu wasting time (midair) can end up sucking if the mobs aren't tall enough
Omega-3 gradually pulls into center of the skill.the hitbox is still small and mobs can get away with it if they got iframes, same for bosses
FM1 first strike gathers.True, but then again you wasted 15second of your life if you used it on the ground just to gather it, and probably 30more second for its cooldown
Jade pulls foes from one place to another.Cool and stuff, but still linear :/
Calcium and Magnesium are both pushes.The range is still linear and mobs can end up on sides
Chiropractic can move sevral foes from one place to another extremely quickly and easily.very high cooldown to rely on, probably once every room at most (which won't gather everything since they can just -counter/force cancel- and they won't be grabbed at all, and that's usually a mob's first use in AI
Vitamin Combinations pushes all foes to the end of the hitbox.Can't argue with that, but then again RIP vitamines for mini boss usage?
FM3 is a Tornado that carries all foes from one spot to another.Its very good and stuff, but its FM3, 1min cooldown :/



(10-20-2015, 11:11 AM)Khleys Wrote: Bossing still plays a much more massive role, stats play a massive role in ranking, and J and Nata are uncommonly mained, ergo lower stats. (which is ironic because I'm talking to a Nata/J main)

By the way, you should remember that YOU YOURSELF proved how important True Damage/Defense Penetration is in Dragon Hall.
Who has the highest penetration rates? Levia and Seha.

...J only has one skill with included penetration.

Last time i checked, Defense penetration was barely doing ****, true damage on the other hand yes, i got like 43% physical defense penetration and can reduce defense by 20%+13%+20%, I still get one of the worst rankings, assuming I've been doing dragon hall for 2months+ for fibers, Lasso can't gather the whole room in one spot, unless you wait for mobs to gather at you, and that's technically Nata's only "legit" mobing tool.

Then again,EVEN IF i get ranked 9XX, i stay on top 40 Nata board, coincidence? i think not :T

Should i mention how having 22% defense penetration skill cubes didn't change sh*t for me?

(10-20-2015, 11:11 AM)Khleys Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 09:20 AM)Person Wrote: I wouldn't accept things such as "no J in the server is geared" as explanation, remember the 70k DPS one lol..

Stats matter but if you suck at the game nothing can help you. And don't forget you're using Dragon Hall as an example, which requires penetration-based build or a character with a lot of penetration already (which J does not have).
Also not everyone does Dragon Hall, and there's a good chance other players just have considerably better stats or strategy.
I prefer to say that the issue of dragon hall is the HP regen, for low levels (obviously the boss has some defense, but only high damage and true damage can make it easier, penetration is doing almost nothing)

But like,seriously, last week i only saw 2 Js on dragon Hall board, and they were ranked on 5th & 9th page :/

By the time they use their "mobing" tools, they already go on CD and can no longer be used for a long while, i mean, you can't kill a whole map using omega 3 rush or something like that, your only hope is Chiropractic and FM3, anything other than that will end up taking way more time (if FM1 or something similiar)

(10-20-2015, 11:11 AM)Khleys Wrote:
(10-20-2015, 09:20 AM)Person Wrote: J is better on bossing than Yuri (or tied with her, golden time again +85% critical damage yo)

...I...can't tell if you're trying to tell me J sucks or J is good.
Though I say Yuri is better because her character bonus gives +% of Critical Damage AND Attack. Not to mention she loses absolutely nothing from going hybrid build, unlike J. And if you don't use hybrid build for J, you lose out on some DPS.

Well, they are almost tied for sure, but if J is definitely better then there's no way he's far behind :/


(And i would say there's more J players than Nata, last time i checked the board for characters, Nata's ended at 4~6th page or so while J's was full till the last page..)



On a side note, J/Yuri/Nata being better than seulbi in mobing is very very hard to believe e_e
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