Closer's future and how Naddic drove themselves to a corner.
#1
As much as I love the game, it can only last for so long.

Closers is an action arcade MMO, yet, the game has a fundamental problem that's going to cripple it in the near future.
What did Naddic do wrong?

They made the game solely PvE focused.

New dungeons take time to make. You have to make new models, new monsters, new concepts, and (In Closer's case) a new and engaging storyline.

When the game first revealed its update schedule back in December, announcing that "New Dungeons" and a "New Area" were going to be released on top of the current 4 areas, I was excited and my initial fears for the game were gone. Naddic seemed to have everything planned out for the future.

Except this turned out to be the exact opposite and Closer's going in the exact direction that I was afraid of.
The new dungeons and area were straight-up rehashes. This shows that Naddic doesn't have any major content prepared ahead of time when the game was first launched. They've run out. Look at Elsword, it takes them on average, a year for each new area. How long will it take for Closers, which clearly requires more assets and polish for its PvE, to come up with new areas?

Naddic knows this, and to keep its playerbase busy, they've put up a horrendous grind and a limiting stamina system to slow down progress as much as possible. They know that their playerbase hates the grind, yet, they can't lift it because players will reach endgame and have absolutely nothing to do, leading to a loss of players. This is where Naddic is stuck. They have to pump out areas constantly to keep players busy. Otherwise, what's the point of playing when there's nothing else?

So what did other games like Elsword do right? They have endgame content to keep players occupied. Elsword, for example, has PvP, Henir, 20 other classes. Players will always have something to do. Closers doesn't have any of this. The amount of skills each character has is limited (4 per advancement? Really?) and the game's grind and shared stamina system discourages players from trying out other characters. There's no PvP either, one of the biggest flaws that's dragging this game down. AOS mode doesn't count, considering nobody plays it anymore and the only incentive is to just farm the daily UN.

I really like Closers, but I have to admit, the game's not going to last very long if Naddic doesn't make major changes. It's a shame, the game is extremely well made and its quality set a new standard for MMOs.
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#2
Quote:This game's gonna die because there's no PvP.
I'll never get why this is such a big deal. Or why you want it so badly.
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#3
I really, really agree with you. I'm considering to quit for good. :/

(02-20-2015, 03:27 AM)Nova Wrote:
Quote:This game's gonna die because there's no PvP.
I'll never get why this is such a big deal. Or why you want it so badly.

Why do people invest time and money in a game? To look fancy and kill monsters controlled by AI? I don't think so. I mean, I know a player or another, but it doesn't count. The major number of players like something competitive which both Naddic and CloserS can't offer right now. Moreover, the PvE content makes me wanna die. It's so, so repetitive and it takes ages to level.
[Image: l1joBd2.png]
Kaideh 45Kudaranai 43Mitsumi 43 — Alejandro 30  — Harisu 20
ID: Kaideh
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#4
I'll agree that the game's grind is unbearable right now. I'll agree that the way they're going about in adding content is slow and will probably drive more players away due to the sheer boredom. Hell, my Mistel's at Singang right now and I'm already tired of playing him and I want to go back to playing Seulbi again and getting her capped even though that means a lot more grinding. Not to mention that no one's doing anything except Cube runs(which are locked unless you're doing the OA quest or with someone doing the OA quest) and those repeatables that reward money, dimensional cracks and rainbow jewels.

I just don't think that PvP will magically solve all of the game's problems. It's like when Warframe implemented a PvP system of its own: it' feels completely tacked on and doesn't seem fun at all because of how the game is built entirely around PvE.

PvP with this game will pretty much feel the same way: horribly imbalanced and matches will be determined by who can spam Finishing Blows first. Not to mention that PvP in MMOs like this feels more like an e-peen stroking contest than actual fun, especially once this ships to America, where they force PvP as the "new meta" even though it's unbalanced and messed up(for example, Elsword).

My suggestion? Find ways to make PvE competitive. I'm talking scoreboards, time attack, different challenges, hell, even randomizing layouts and enemy positions. I feel like the game got PvE right because doing dungeons made it feel like I'm playing an online version of Devil May Cry.

Also, take out the attempt limits on the bonus areas, like with the Wave Defense, Wave Survival and Goblin Maze areas. I remember doing Wave Defense when I was 30+ on the hardest difficulty and it was still difficult to complete. I want more of that, but I don't want to be limited to 3 runs per day. Furthermore, allow Cube access after you complete the OA quest. For a place you have to do 40 times just to get more skills, it offers a challenge and is pretty exhilarating to do.

Why yes, I hate PvP very much and I don't like it when people treat it as the "end-all, be-all" to every game.
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#5
I'm worried too. I don't like PvP that much, but even I can see that not having this game mode is a big problem...
It's not really a must have, but many people like it.

I don't know why there's no one playing AOS right now.
I'm playing VS AI (because playing with others = distance lag) everyday and it's actually pretty fun, even for me who doesn't like MOBA.

(02-20-2015, 02:48 AM)Yaoi Wrote: So what did other games like Elsword do right? They have endgame content to keep players occupied. Elsword, for example, has PvP, Henir, 20 other classes. Players will always have something to do. Closers doesn't have any of this.
Elsword endgame content is ****. Run secrets and Henir 78948678894548977456 times to get good gear, then run 8-6 78945641564 times to get a good title. New level cap: run all that again more 89798451231 times. I mean, really? This is like the apex of boredom. lol

(02-20-2015, 03:46 AM)Nova Wrote: My suggestion? Find ways to make PvE competitive. I'm talking scoreboards, time attack, different challenges, hell, even randomizing layouts and enemy positions. I feel like the game got PvE right because doing dungeons made it feel like I'm playing an online version of Devil May Cry.
YES
PLEASE
I think that things like that would work. I loved to compete for the MVP/SS rank in Elsword. =P
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#6
Vindictus/Mabinogi Heroes only releases a few new raid bosses that you can do once a day every few months and only just released proper stages again after years of mostly raid bosses. It has no real PVP and the classes are clearly not designed for it.

It's still one of South Korea's top games.

Maple Story didn't have PVP for the longest time, and even removed its PVP mode after adding one. It is primarily PVE and hasn't added much in terms of meaningful content ever since they stopped adding new classes.

It's still the biggest kMMO worldwide. And its upcoming sequel is perhaps the most hyped up game in South Korea since Starcraft 2 was announced.

Hell, kMMOs in general operate on a general schedule of major releases ONLY happening in the Summer and Winter. I'm sure Closers will move on to this as well after they finish releasing J and Misteltein's Official Agent advancements. And people will continue to log on.

Hell, Grand Chase hasn't had an update since Uno half a year ago, and has announced that it's shutting down. But according to the ranking sites it has been seeing a steady level of activity.

Do I believe Closers has problems? Damn right I do. Seulbi's my main but I left her at level 49 and am focusing on Misteltein (42) and Seha (39) right now instead until they lower the damn EXP tables and/or fix the Epilogue bosses so they're not so god damn cheap/annoying. (E-2's boss on VH likes to drag out the battle by constantly doing that tiny exploding blade attack in which you cannot even hurt it.) And the Stamina system in general, although the korean government is to blame, is a pain in the ass. I've been staying up until 4 AM because I've been trying to get the most out of the free VIP service bonuses the event has been giving out.

.....But I do not believe Closers is in any immediate danger. Not for the listed reasons. Things need to change, but I'm sure they have some time to change them.
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#7
Quote:Hell, kMMOs in general operate on a general schedule of major releases ONLY happening in the Summer and Winter. I'm sure Closers will move on to this as well after they finish releasing J and Misteltein's Official Agent advancements. And people will continue to log on.
Funny you should mention that, since 2na already found assets for the new area inside the game files.

Also, the lack of update for this week might have been a good thing after all, considering this means that they can spend their time making sure everything's in order and not release a buggy mess just for the sake of satisfying a quota. At least as long as this doesn't happen repeatedly.

Right now though, the only thing that we should be worried about is its ranking, considering it fell off the rankings in one site, and is slowly going down in the other one, despite how high it is.
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#8
The grind is abhorrent.
The PvP is long and tedious and doesn't have enough reward for the time invested into it.
Ideally, a future patch would fix both of these lasting problems.
And it's not like PvE is mindless, as Elsword's PvE is...
I don't know what to say. I started to not have fun in PvE in this game as soon as the repetitiveness kicked in. For each new area came the same, almost monotonous aspect of the game...
But I believe this is fixable. And with such amazing devs as Naddic, I think something can be figured out.
Let's all hope for CloserS' future.
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#9
im still having fun making millions dismantling stuff and test outfits that getting cheaper in blackmarket and they cannot make it anymore expensive.  
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#10
I think the game will need to reduce the cash shop prices, lower the EXP curve and adjust the enemies to not be such massive HP sponges in order to survive. The game has a great foundation, but feels like it could have used some more constructive criticism and feedback in the beta phase. I soloed up to 37 on J due to the optimization issues preventing me from partying, and each stage took increasingly longer as the enemies got more health. The progression slows to a halt in area 3, and having a high EXP curve usually makes people stop playing instead of spending money on the cash shop. Some of the cash items are fairly priced (resurrection pills, dungeon buffs, etc.), but the more important things require a ridiculous amount of real money unless the player grinds out a ton of Union Medals, which destroys the impulse buying that games like this thrive on.

In terms of the PVP, I think they could make it work with a lot of effort, but it's not entirely clear if they want to do that. PVP on action MMOs requires constant balance tweaks and general caretaking, and honestly, the things I mentioned in the first paragraph should take priority. DNF has been around for ten years, and has had a few long stretches of time where the mode was clearly unbalanced, and they're working with a much larger brand name and the extra recognition that comes with being an eSports game in Korea. It would take them ages to make a PVP mode that players would actually want to come back to, whereas the things I mentioned above could be fixed rather quickly if they gathered feedback from the playerbase.
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